Re: Why is java considered a language for "web" or "internet" programming?

Tom Forsmo <>
Thu, 19 Oct 2006 03:28:40 +0200
ge0rge wrote:

Tom Forsmo wrote:

Just so you know, Perl and Php have much better portability and safety
than Java.

Really? Somehow I find that hard to believe.

As far as portability is concerned Perl was originally designed for
sysadm work (Practical Extraction and Reporting Language), meaning if it
was to be portable and work closely with the OS, it needed system
independent support for typical os and shell commands. For example,
there are explicit commands to do all sorts of file operations built
directly into perl. The logic of the operation are defined at perl
level, so any perl implementation has to abide by the perl definition of
the operation, not the underlying system.
When it comes to safety, since we have no definition of it, lets just
say that, Perl can be at least as safe as Java, of course that depends
on whether you are doing things the right way. But I have to mention a
notion in perl that i like, and that is the optional "taint mode". This
means that any data coming from outside the process are marked as
tainted. If you try to just copy it directly to a new variable or use it
in an statement it will stop with a warning. The only way to get the
data to clean mode is to use regexp to extract the exact part of the
data you need. This leaves the garbage out in the cold.

Of course that depends on what you define safety as.

yes. I would like to see that definition of safety which makes Perl more
safe than Java.

Also for you information, I read a statistic a couple of weeks ago
which stated that php was the largest by far,

hmm... I just find this hard to believe. I work for a big company and I
can honestly say I have not heard of anybody using php. I know people
who are using C/C++, perl, java, javascript, asp, c#, html/xml and even
on rare occasions python.

Do you talk to the outside world? Have you ever noticed that there are
platforms, tools and languages out there that other people use even
though you are not using them. Nobody said that the numbers I gave would
be an exact share of platforms in every company or project in the world.
  They are statistical generalisations. The world is big so there are
going to be differences.

 almost 50-60% or something, then

there was java, perl, python and ruby on rails. Python and ruby were
only a couple of percent and perl I think was about 18% or something.
I couldn't find the actual article, but If someone wants it, I will
dig harder for it.

Yes please.

The original article I read was summary in a non english paper. In any
case, here is the source of the article, parts of it are freely
available. I haven't read the actual report as it would cost me $800 to
buy a copy, and therefore I don't know the statistical accuracy of the

Its called "The state of Web Development 2006/2007". Its an interview of
5000 developers having many different roles and tasks in different
companies. Its a lot about what they will be doing in the future but
there is a small bit about current share of platforms and one bit about
"a large portion of the php developers will be moving to ruby on rails"

In any case, somewhat adjusted from faults in bad memory, here are the
details. The articles states that more than 67% use php in one form or
another, and 33% use php only. 31% use Microsoft solutions, of that 21%
is .NET/ASP.NET. 14% use Java/JSP. Perl 10%, ColdFusion 8%, Ruby 5%,
Python 3%. 14% does not use any development platform, just static HTML.
In the next 12 months 24% think they will start using Ruby, while about
23% think they will start using a .NET solution.

And then there is lots of other stuff about what technologies they think
they will start using, what source of information they use, standards,
tools, methods, and of course Ajax. 46% think they will start using Ajax
within the next 12 months and flash will drop to about 27%. Microformats
is a hot new thing. And lastly the best method is OO by 50%, then code
review 36%, unit testing 34%, versioning 29%, nothing 24%, mvc 17%,
generated docs 14%.

I think that is it.


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