Re: Volunteer for Java Development

Tom Anderson <>
Tue, 27 Dec 2011 03:29:33 +0000
On Sat, 24 Dec 2011, Lew wrote:

On Friday, December 23, 2011 3:47:40 PM UTC-8, Qu0ll wrote:

"Lew" wrote in message

Spring sucks.

Why not use good stuff instead?

Care to elaborate on that postulation?

Conclusion, not postulation.

I have used Spring on mnay projects. It was always a tangled mess of obscure
references to extrinsic resources to obfuscate logic. This may not be Spring's
fault, but it's a consistent result.

Java EE annotations do everything Spring hopes to, only better, more simply,
with a more flowing mental model, in accordance with the standard.

That is not *quite* true.

CDI replaces some of the fundamental bits of Spring: the dependency
injection, and AOP. Done and dusted.

You could argue that JSF replaces Spring MVC. I don't think it does,
because Spring MVC is an action-style framework, and JSF is a
component-style framework. Rather different beasts. There is no
EE-standard action-style framework, so there is no genuine EE replacement
for Spring MVC. There are other action-style frameworks that are smaller
than spring MVC and more aligned with EE (Stripes with the injection
enhancer, perhaps), so you could argue that modern EE lets them make
Spring MVC obsolete.

But there are many other bits of Spring.

Security? Does JAAS and friends cover everything Acegi does? Don't think

Web Flow? It's a sort of wizard-based web framework. Does JSF address
that? Don't know. Does it address it within an action-based framework? No.

JDBC templates? They're simple, but they apparently really simplify JDBC
programming (for people who need to do raw JDBC).

Spring Integration? Web Services? Batch? I have no idea what they do. I
would be very surprised if *everything* they did was now covered by EE.

So, whilst i agree that EE now does everything the Spring *core* hopes to,
better and more simply, i think there are other bits of Spring which may
still be useful. If the Spring guys have a clue, they will adapt them to
work with EE's DI and AOP mechanisms. Spring has always been a layer on
top of EE; as EE gains the ability to do certain things well, Spring can
simply evolve to do other things.

Which is not to say that Spring is the only way of doing these things, or
is, or will remain, the best way!


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