Re: C++ vs C

JiiPee <no@notvalid.com> writes:


  The majority of sane programmers / managers decides to do
  projects in C:

  TIOBE, 2014-07:

1 1 C 17.145% -0.48%
4 4 C++ 5.520% -3.23% (end of quotation from TIOBE)
                                ^^^^^^
                                =dying

  After all, who can know what support there will be tomorrow
  for a dying legacy language of the 90s like C++?

  Linus is by no means alone:

      ?If you port your Firefox add-on to IE, you may have to
      use C++. And Allen admitted that this is a bit 1998.
      "The first thing people say is 'That's horrible. No one
      programs in C++ anymore,'" he said.?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12/11/firefox_to_ie_port/

  (Some of the URIs here might have become invalid because they
  were retrieved some years ago.)

      ?=head2 What language is Parrot written in?

      C.

      =head2 For the love of God, man, why?!?!?!?

      Because it's the best we've got.?

http://www.davidcole.net/msie/notes/ipl/perl/jul13/parrot/parrot-0.0.4/docs/faq.pod

      ?Here's the thing: C is everywhere. Recently Tim Bray made
      basically the same point; all the major operating systems,
      all the high-level language runtimes, all the databases,
      and all major productivity applications are written in C.?

http://girtby.net/archives/2008/08/23/in-defence-of-c/

      ?According to the TIOBE index, the C programming
      language is the most popular language in April 2010.?

http://www.geeks3d.com/20100413/tiobe-index-c-language-back-at-number-1-position/

  C++ is way too complicated:

      ?Today's C++ programs will be tomorrow's unmaintainable
      legacy code. As [GWS 94] says of C++:

            "The seeds of software disasters for decades to
            come have already been planted and well fertilised."?

retrieved in 2007 from:
http://burks.brighton.ac.uk/burks/pcinfo/progdocs/cppcrit/index005.htm

[GWS94] = GARFINKEL, WEISS, STRASSMANN
The Unix-Haters Handbook, IDG books 1994.

http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/57918

      ?C++ is already too large and complicated for our taste?

    from a Usenet post posted by Bjarne Stroustrup

      ?C++ is too complicated. At the moment, it's impossible
      for me to write portable code that I believe would work
      on lots of different systems?

    Donald E. Knuth

      ?the largest cross platform compatible subset of C++ is C?

http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=8826

      ?C++ has always been a zombie, its only drive is the C
      ghost inside it :-)?

    Pascal J. Bourguignon

<7cfxdrp4pj.fsf@pbourguignon.anevia.com>

      ?I think C++ was pushed well beyond its complexity threshold?

    Joshua Bloch

http://gigamonkeys.com/blog/2009/10/16/coders-c++.html

      ?C++ is an unbelievably huge language?

http://blogs.msdn.com/jaredpar/archive/2009/04/21/questions-not-to-hinge-a-c-interview-on.aspx

      ?it's just a garbage heap of ideas that are mutually exclusive?

    Ken Thompson

http://gigamonkeys.com/blog/2009/10/16/coders-c++.html

      ?there are a lot of people programming it. But what you
      do is you force people to subset it.?

    Jamie Zawinski

http://gigamonkeys.com/blog/2009/10/16/coders-c++.html

      ?the bug classes C++ introduces are way scarier than the
      ones it takes off the table?

http://www.matasano.com/log/914/c-a-cautionary-tale-or-1-hour-of-your-black-hat-trip-is-spoken-for/

      ?C++ is a huge regression compared to C?

    Felix von Leitner

http://events.ccc.de/camp/2007/Fahrplan/events/1951.en.html

      ?C++ has become a niche language, but I talk to many C++
      programmers who live in total denial about that fact.?

http://weblogs.java.net/blog/cayhorstmann/archive/2008/01/dinosaurs_can_t_1.html

      ?C++ is becoming a freak language that's parading its
      disfigurements in front of mildly disgusted but
      curiously fascinated audience.?

http://www.relisoft.com/tools/CppCritic.html

      ?an interesting difference between "Effective Java" and
      "Effective C++" is that my reaction to the latter was to
      come up with a set of SOPs that mainly boil down to
      "don't use C++ feature x".?

    Bjorn Borud

<m3is1ti9kq.fsf@borud.not>
 
      ?C++ is generally regarded as the most technically
      deficient of the popular OOPLs.?

    H. S. Lahman

<bv6je.8995$_f7.1506@trndny01>

      ?There are only two things wrong with C++, The initial
      concept and the implementation.?

    Bertrand Meyer

      ?C++ is a vast playground, and makes you feel smart
      when you know all of it, so you're always tempted to use
      all of it. But that's really, really hard to do well,
      because it's such a crap language to begin with. In the
      end, you just make a mess, even if you're good.?

http://steve.yegge.googlepages.com/tour-de-babel

      ?It was decisions like not using C++ and not using
      threads that made us ship the product on time.?

    Jamie Zawinski

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2009/09/23.html

      ?C++ is a horrible language. It's made more horrible by
      the fact that a lot of substandard programmers use it (...)

      I've come to the conclusion that any programmer that would
      prefer the project to be in C++ over C is likely a
      programmer that I really *would* prefer to [move on], so
      that he doesn't come and [disturb] any project I'm involved
      with. (...)

      [T]wo years down the road you notice that some
      abstraction wasn't very efficient, but now all your code
      depends on all the nice object models around it, and you
      cannot fix it without rewriting your app.?

http://lwn.net/Articles/249460/

      ?As you can see, C++ is really complex, and so a few
      mistakes crept in. First of all, exceptions in
      constructors do call local destructors, but only if the
      exception is caught.?

http://www.fefe.de/c++/

      ?C++ is just an abomination. Everything is wrong with it
      in every way. So I really tried to avoid using that as
      much as I could and do everything in C at Netscape.?

    Jamie Zawinski

http://gigamonkeys.com/blog/2009/10/16/coders-c++.html

      ?Though I was not the world's leading C++ expert, I was
      a sophisticated and knowledgeable C++ user.

      So what happened? Basically I got sick of every single
      aspect of C++ being designed around higher performance
      instead of my productivity. I also got sick of
      impossible to diagnose linker errors and never being
      able to just download a library and use it. Each new
      library meant I had to build from source because C++ has
      no ABI that allows compiled code to just be used. (...)

      I wish the C++ people would wake up and realize that C++
      is drowning in its own complexity. If I had to write a
      high performance application these days I would reach
      for C. Any other application I would write in either a
      scripting or VM based language and then code the slow
      parts in C. Why not C++? Mainly because you can't get
      scripting or VM based languages to play nicely with C++
      because C++ has no ABI.?

    Pro-Phi-Psi; Tuesday, March 11, 2008

http://prophipsi.blogspot.com/2008/03/why-i-no-longer-like-or-use-c.html (gone)

  See also:

http://www.sysprog.net/quotec.html
http://burks.bton.ac.uk/burks/pcinfo/progdocs/cppcrit/
http://yosefk.com/c++fqa/defective.html
http://www.nothings.org/computer/cpp.html
http://www.horstmann.com/cpp/pitfalls.html
http://steve.yegge.googlepages.com/tour-de-babel
http://artlung.com/smorgasborg/Invention_of_Cplusplus.shtml
http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/docs/lkml/#s15-3