Re: The start of a C/C++ adventure...
On Tuesday, July 16, 2013 7:41:10 PM UTC+1, Balog Pal wrote:
On 7/16/2013 11:20 AM, James Kanze wrote:
I for example don't use any of those. In the last heavy vim-using
environment the best C++ programmer used joe. Those working for
non-unix would puke from any vi-descendant,
I'm currently working in a 100% Windows environment, and I use
vim.
BAH, misphrased, I meant those who started and evolved there. Of course
you use vim -- that is the editor you used. I used visual studio in unix
developpment for the very same reason. But it doesn't say anything
about the editor really, only about our (in)flexibility. ;-)
What you have programmed in your fingers does make a difference.
I don't have to think about the vim commands, because my fingers
just do them.
You're work style also plays a role. I'm used to filtering
blocks of "code" through external tools, for example, for
formatting comments, aligning equal signs and entries in tables,
and such. It may be possible in VS, but I've never seen a user
do it.
An interesting side-light: the people I know who prefer vim,
even in a Windows enviroment, all touch type.
I try to recall people from my past, and just can't find a single one
who did not touch-type.
So how do you manage in VS, without moving your fingers from the
base position. Everytime I see someone doing something more
than just entering text in VS, their hands are all over the
place, hitting function keys, cursor keys, etc.
None of the people I know who prefer the VS editor touch type.
Hm, I start wondering where the winds blew you this time. ;)
I don't know what conclusion to draw from that, though.
Probably that you're in some weird place. But maybe it's the other way
around really, and touch-typing is connected more to being aged.
That is a pertinant observation. Most of the people I know who
touch type are older. (But not all older people touch type.)
And new
environments with completion work against TT? We have three fresh-grads
and they type alright, I honestly never thought it's an attribute worth
checking on interview or something.
No, but it makes a difference in productivity none the less.
(Another co-relation, at least in people I know: programmers who
prefer vim or emacs tend to make heavy use of regular
expressions and external tools. Those who use VS tend to do
everything in VS.)
And what counts "external"? VS has hundreds of plugins, are those in or
out? How about macros you write or record in emacs or vs?
Most of the tools I'm talking about are ones I've written
myself, in C++. A long time ago.
What is the virtue of external tool if you get it inside? The most
frequent one is IME definitely grep -- that was built-in VS from 1.0.
Along with globalreplace.
Build/compiler and debugger is inside, so is source control (well,
mostly). And the bug tracker. Even an internal web browser is
available. So WHAT is left needed for externalia?
Anything special, that no one else has needed before. And that
I can write in C++ or in Python (and not in VB).
Well, I'm not happy with the integrated git support so use a plenty of
it outside, but possibly it will be better covered in a year.
IMO the practical approach is to look *how problems are solved* and
whether they are actually. Not the composition of the applied clicks
and keystrokes. If time is wasted on manual work or workaround what a
program could just do -- that *is* a problem.
Exactly. That's why piping the sources through a shell script
is so important to me.
--
James