Re: Do you suggest me using IDE when I'm learning JAVA

From:
Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li>
Newsgroups:
comp.lang.java.programmer
Date:
Mon, 3 May 2010 13:46:55 +0100
Message-ID:
<alpine.DEB.1.10.1005031345270.12703@urchin.earth.li>
On Mon, 3 May 2010, Arved Sandstrom wrote:

Arne Vajh?j wrote:

On 02-05-2010 15:49, Arved Sandstrom wrote:

Arne Vajh?j wrote:

On 02-05-2010 08:46, Arved Sandstrom wrote:

Arne Vajh?j wrote:

On 01-05-2010 20:53, Arved Sandstrom wrote:

What GUI tools?


It seems to be the entire development suite.


What it looks like, if we're examining Table 8-5 in that document, is
that "Very High Level of Automation (circa 2000+)" gets a tool rating of
0.83 as compared to 0.91 for "High Level of Automation (circa 1980+)".

So yes, approximately 10 percent better for 2000+.

But look at what they are including for even 1980+:

CASE tools
Basic graphical design aids
Word processor
Implementation standards enforcer
Static source code analyzer
Program flow and test case analyzer
Full program support library with configuration management (CM) aids
Full integrated documentation system
Automated requirement specification and analysis
General purpose system simulators
Extended design tools and graphics support
Automated verification system
Special purpose design support tools

When was the last time you ever saw - let alone worked in - a shop that
did even a substantial fraction of all of that? Particularly back in the
'80s? It would have taken a very good operation indeed to be using most
of those tools back in, say, 1985. Whereas if we examine the 2000+ list:

Integrated application development environment
Integrated project support
Visual programming tools
Automated code structuring
Automated metric tools
GUI development and testing tools
Fourth Generation Languages (4GLs)
Code generators
Screen generators

there is a much better chance, IMHO, that a larger fraction of that list
is in play for even moderately good organizations.

Worst case (and a fairly common one) we're really comparing text editor
(1980+) to IDE (2000+). Good case (and also a reasonably common one)
we're comparing most of the 2000+ list to very little of the 1980+ list.

So I think in reality the productivity gains for most organizations,
based on tools, have been considerably greater.


I believe a lot of their input is DoD projects. They tend to
spend a lot on quality - the cost of launching a nuclear missile
due to a software bug is a bit high.

The 10% sound very reasonable to me.

If we just compare text editor to IDE and we assume that
an IDE is 10 times faster than a text editor and that
a developer on complex projects only spend 5% of the time
actually writing the code, then that part can only contribute
4.5%. And 10 times faster is a rather aggressive assumption.


Rightly or wrongly, with the state of software engineering being what it
is I'd guess, based on observation, that many (if not most) developers
spend more like 50 percent of their time - time which can be directly
tracked against a software project - buried in their IDEs. Often it's
higher than that. I've seen any number of junior and intermediate
programmers over the years who are not tasked with anything but coding,
in which case they are north of 75%.

With those numbers then just a 2x speedup in using a IDE over a text
editor is significant.


Yes.

But please don't use the term software ENGINEERING about a
process that spends 50-75% of the time in the IDE.


I think it would depend on the role of the developer and the particular
methodology in use - 50%+ time spent in the IDE might not be indicative
of a low state of software process, or it might be.


I find what i assume to be Arne's point shocking. The ideal software
process would spend *100%* of its time writing code, because it would have
optimised all the supporting activities to the point where all working
time could be put into the one activity that actually produces the output.

tom

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