Re: Aspect questions?
Novice wrote:
Lew wrote:
Novice wrote:
How did you sell employers on that? I really want to know.
I think it's a matter of having the skill and baldly claiming it, but
to tell the truth I don't really know how I pull it off. I think
people feel the confidence and don't question it too closely. I know
my capabilities and people seem to believe me.
I'm picturing a shop whose main language is, say, C++ (which you
haven't mentioned so I assume you don't know it.) The ad calls for
serious C++
....
I didn't mean to overlook any skills or make any unflattering
assumptions, Lew. I just used C++ because I wanted my example to be of
something quite substantive that you couldn't learn well in a few days
(or at least that most people couldn't learn well in a few days - you
seemed to have learned Java in a remarkably short time!) I simply chose
I learned Java in a week because I'd spent time reading about it for a year first.
But I didn't consider that I had learned it because I hadn't used it, couldn't
figure out how packages related to directories, and had some other troubles.
I learned the language itself enough to program with it in about a week in
early 1999. That employer knew of my weakness in the language. I told him I
needed a week and he gave me a chance to prove it.
I wasn't adept in Java until at least 2000, not really until 2001. During that
time I went to Java Users' Group (JUG) meetings, heck, a friend of mine and I
ran a JUG for almost two years, training Java programmers. (I got trained
there, too.) I read constantly, then and now, various Java articles and still
go back and re-read the tutorials from time to time. Then and now, I wrote
sample applications, sometimes relatively complex, to learn new techniques
like JPA and JSF.
Often I'd learn something like JPA using Apache OpenJPA, then shortly
thereafter get a job where they used Hibernate, but pre-JPA. So I didn't have
the specific buzzword ("Hibernate", and not JPA at that). But I had
substantial experience in ORMs (Object-Relational Mapping frameworks), SQL,
and JDBC, with study knowledge of JPA. It was enough; in fact it made me
better at Hibernate than the rest of my team combined, and they had experience
with it.
Beware of claims like "I learned Java in a week". It's taking me a lot of
years to become an overnight success.
C++ because it is complex and you hadn't mentioned it as being one of
your skills. It doesn't remotely surprise me that you know it and
possibly very well. It seems quite likely that you learned Java so
quickly because you had previous exposure to C++ or something like it.
That would give you exposure to much of the syntax and all of the OO
concepts and give you a massive head start with Java.
skills. You send a resume which doesn't claims no knowledge of C++ at
all. How do you even get an interview let alone persuade them that
you can be productive in that language in short order?
I don't recommend trying to learn C++ quickly, nor claiming expertise
in it if you don't know it.
Absolutely! I was astounded that you had learned Java that quickly but as
I just said above, that probably happened because you had a similar
language, very likely C++, so that you didn't have all that much to learn
when you got to Java.
You know, "learned" is such an imprecise term.
impression is that employers all expect you to have a long list of
qualifications and certifications in _exactly_ what they want. And
they don't seem to want to have to spend any money training anyone
for anything.
That's why my resume shows qualifications in every skill.
When you say that it shows qualifications, do you mean that it simply
lists technologies that you have used or do you have specific
industry- recognized certifications in each of the technologies? For
instance, one person might list programming skills like so:
No, I mean that as a joke. No one has every skill.
Of course not. Sorry, I misunderstood your intent. I thought you were
talking about how you described the skills you do have.
I describe them with five pages of small-print, densely-formatted resume
comprising very brief synopses that mostly just list the technologies from
each project with a curt overview of what I did with them.
Languages Known: COBOL, Fortran, LISP, C++
I learned COBOL in college, swearing then not to become known as a programmer
in it. It's actually not a bad language, I now think. I programmed
professionally in FORTRAN (and Fortran) for several years after I graduated,
before teaching myself C. (On the job, with my manager's blessing. But then, I
was already an employee there.) I learned C++ on my own well enough to
convince someone to hire me for it, then got better at it on the job.
I've studied LISP but never used it. I don't claim to know the language.
I used Python on my most recent project. I was successful at programming with
it, but I have yet to learn it. Nevertheless, it's listed as a skill, since I
can program with it, after all.
Another might say:
Languages: Java (Advanced Programmer Certification), C (Intermediate
Programmer Certification), etc. etc.
I don't have any certifications.
I'm even more impressed. So many ads seem to want to see certifications.
You've managed to get jobs without having the main shop language or any
certifications! I wouldn't even apply to jobs like that on the assumption
that my resume would be immediately disqualified....
I would LOVE to find out how you manage to get considered despite what
seem like insurmountable obstacles to me....
I sell the strengths I do have, acknowledge the weaknesses openly but not
obsequiously, and lay out a specific strategy and rationale why those
weaknesses don't matter much but the strengths do.
And I totally believe in myself.
Also, I spent a year living on straight commission once.
--
Lew
Honi soit qui mal y pense.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Friz.jpg