Re: Bulk Array Element Allocation, is it faster?

From:
Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com>
Newsgroups:
comp.lang.java.programmer
Date:
Sun, 25 Sep 2011 15:43:16 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID:
<25084990.892.1316990596220.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prfb12>
On Sunday, September 25, 2011 12:25:18 PM UTC-7, Jan Burse wrote:

Lew schrieb:

How would you imagine the JIT would optimize this

 > without taking semantics into account? Each 'Bla'
 > is required to be independently GC-able, you know.
 
In my posts I mentioned two possible optimizations.
Optimization 1: Moveing the locking outside of the
loop, Optimization 2: Allocating at once n*X where


That's not an optimization because things might need to happen in between l=
oop cycles, so you can't "lock the heap" that long and call it an "optimiza=
tion".

Semantically an array of n references is an array of n separate references.=
  You can't count on the memory allocations to be contiguous, shouldn't hav=
e to count on that, and you certainly can't count on each reference becomin=
g eligible for GC at the same time. GC in turn moves things around anyway,=
 so any "benefit" of contiguous allocation will be gone quite quickly, if i=
t ever existed in the first place.

And the point you ignore is that the "benefit" of contiguous allocation is =
questionable, let alone of your rather bizarre suggestion to move the "lock=
ing of the heap" outside the loop. Each 'new' just bumps up the heap point=
er, so it's not much faster to bump it once than n times, in the grand sche=
me of things. Not when your tiny advantage is quickly eaten up by circumst=
ances immediately afterward anyway.

X is the space for the Bla record, not the space
for the Bla point.
 


But that's the thing that's semantically different!

You can't "optimize" allocation of n references to also create a block of n=
 instances. The optimizer cannot know that that is the intended use of the=
 array. You can't "optimize" the allocation of n instances consecutively e=
ither, because you have to know a whole lot about what those n constructors=
 will try to do, including possibly allocate heap themselves or except out =
prematurely. For the few cases where block allocation *might* provide negl=
igible speedup, it's not worth the analysis effort to determine that this o=
ne time is one of those rare exceptions when allocation might be sped up en=
ough for anyone to notice.

As people keep pointing out in this conversation.

Since after allocation, we have the assignment
bla[i] = new Bla(), the object cannot escape as
long as bla does not escape, so there should be
not much problem with GC, but I am not 100% sure
what the problems with GC should be.


What do you even mean by this? What do you mean by the object "escaping"?

I don't know about "problems" with GC, but you cannot be sure that the indi=
vidual instances pointed to by the 'bla[i]' pointers will be descoped at th=
e same time. Ergo you cannot know ahead of time when they will be eligible=
 for GC. Instances that survive GC will be moved to contiguous memory bloc=
ks, but not their original ones. Whatever negligible benefit you might hav=
e gotten, but more likely did not, from contiguous allocation of the 'Bla' =
instances will be wiped out.

But anyway, let speak the figures, and lets stop
musing too much. I did some testing and it shows
that the 64bit can do the "speed up" whereby the
32bit cannot do it:
 
OS JDK Arch Bulk Lazy Delta %
Win 1.6 64bit 8'771 9'805 11.8%
Win 1.6 32bit 14'587 14'744 1.1%
Win 1.5 32bit 17'139 17'405 1.6%
Mac 1.6 64bit 11'003 12'363 12.4%
Unix 1.6 32bit 26'517 26'858 1.3%
 
Still this leaves open the question whether the
64-bit JIT is clever or the 64-bit JVM is clever
or the 64-bit CPU is clever.
 
Definitely it seems that the 32-bit is not clever,
there we all see a small overhead for the lazy,
which I interpret as the additional checks, eventually
done repeatedly, for the lazy.
 

The answer is "nothing", because the semantics
of the operation are such that the current
mechanism is already quite close to optimal.
This is what people have been explaining to you,
that you dismissed as irrelevant.

 
Where do you see "nothing" in the above figures?


Everywhere. You have some questionable method of timing something that you=
 do not describe, let alone with any precision, using doubtful methodology =
and suspect reasoning without reference to experimental error or confidence=
 analysis. Your numbers literally tell me nothing.

--
Lew

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