Re: Clojure vs Java speed
Oxide Scrubber wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean by "value types".
Jon Harrop wrote:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/s1ax56ch(VS.80).aspx
Oxide Scrubber wrote:
I'm sorry,
Are you? Are you really?
but I prefer people to actually discuss something rather than
try to send me off to some web site. Especially some Microsoft web site.
Get off your high horse. Referencing a link is a perfectly legitimate
way to provide basic information such as that for which you ask. You
asked a question, he provided the information. That you for some
inexplicable reason want him to paraphrase a link that clearly and
succinctly answers your question is not his problem. How about you
accept his perfectly valid and comprehensive answer?
There are several different uses of the phrase "value types". Why did it
take you this long to disambiguate?
Others had no trouble whatsoever with the term. The moment you asked,
a couple of people responded with answers. Any faster and they'd've
answered before you asked.
Regardless, it becomes apparent (from all your mentions of F# and
microsoft.com URLs) that you are a Microsoft fanboi [sic] and therefore
religiously opposed to the JVM because, like Linux, it's one of the
Straw-man and ad hominem arguments.
things that Microsoft hates most: a competitor that just won't roll over
and die (DR-DOS), or be bought out (Yahoo), or be sued into submission
(TomTom); indeed, Sun had the gall to actually sue Microsoft and win once!
Your answer is somewhat off from the discussion, but taking point by
point:
Microsoft doesn't seem to show any emotion whatsoever, let alone hate,
with respect to the incidents you cited. DR-DOS killed itself; it
wasn't good enough to sustain itself in the market. Microsoft didn't
show any problem when Yahoo resisted the buyout; it simply started
another search-engine effort. Sun got very palsy-walsy with Microsoft
a couple of years ago, dropped the suit, and offered a joint
announcement with Microsoft that they were happy with each other.
Hardly evidence of hate.
Businesses compete. That's inherent to the capitalist system.
Businesses that compete effectively get to stay in business. That's
nothing for which to be angry with Microsoft. Indeed, you seem to be
showing a stronger interest in bashing Microsoft than addressing the
logic of Dr. Jon's posts.
I realize that it's fashionable to bash Microsoft, but it doesn't
prove anything.
Well, either that or you're just a hypocrite and perhaps even a liar.
Ad hominem name-calling and completely inappropriate. Also, you
provide no evidence of hypocrisy or lies; such accusations put the
burden of proof on you, otherwise they're just pointless flaming.
How else to explain your posts to the Clojure mailing list, some of them
directly contradicting things you've said here (including asserting, at
least twice, that Clojure numeric code can run at native-code speeds).
Perhaps he was discussing primitive numerics, for which the discussion
of value types would not apply. Such points would not apply to matrix
math, of course, and thus there would be no contradiction. Not being
a subscriber to those lists, I don't know. Perhaps you could quote
some of the allegedly contradictory posts verbatim for those of us who
follow in a different newsgroup?
Try to avoid flaming, and focus on presentation of evidence and logic.
--
Lew