Re: Rationale for base class pure virtual function call from ctor/dtor being undefined behaviour.

From:
Leigh Johnston <leigh@i42.co.uk>
Newsgroups:
comp.lang.c++
Date:
Mon, 16 Jan 2012 23:57:59 +0000
Message-ID:
<z4OdncoNKKISJInSnZ2dnUVZ8lednZ2d@giganews.com>
On 16/01/2012 23:48, Paul <pchrist wrote:

"Leigh Johnston"<leigh@i42.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bqGdnd40oMTSKInSnZ2dnUVZ7tKdnZ2d@giganews.com...

On 16/01/2012 23:18, Paul<pchrist wrote:

"Leigh Johnston"<leigh@i42.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8YydncgNDvB9DInSnZ2dnUVZ8oGdnZ2d@giganews.com...

On 16/01/2012 20:49, Paul<pchrist wrote:

"Leigh Johnston"<leigh@i42.co.uk> wrote in message
news:iZudnd3HOcZeFInSnZ2dnUVZ8sudnZ2d@giganews.com...

On 16/01/2012 19:15, Paul<pchrist wrote:

"Leigh Johnston"<leigh@i42.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Ze6dneM27chs94nSnZ2dnUVZ8sednZ2d@giganews.com...

[snip]

A pure virtual function with a definition is not "just an
Interface";
a
pure virtual function with a definition is simply a virtual function
that
must be overridden.


It's still a pure virtual function, but it provides a default
definition.
However that default definition must be invoked from a non abstract
derived
class thus preserving the interface concept of PVF's.

     Just because a virtual function must be overridden does not mean
that
it
makes no sense for its own implementation to be called within the
context
of the class's ctor or dtor; what makes sense depends on the overall
object oriented design of the system of which the virtual function
plays
a
part.


Now wait, you have evolved to suggest that the PVF is now simply a
normal
virtual function that must be overridden but this is not the case.

A normal virtual function is inherited and thus can be overridden.
With
a
PVF there is no inheritence so it cannot be overridden, i.e:

class Base{
public:
     virtual void foo();
};
void Base::foo(){std::cout<<"Base foo...\n";}

class Derived : public Base{
public:
     //virtual void foo(){std::cout<<"Derived foo..\n";}
};

int main(){
     Derived d;
     Base* bp =&d;
     bp->foo();
}

The above shows how the normal virtual function is inherited and if
Derived::foo is uncommented it would override the Base::foo. But if
you
make
Base:foo pure virtual, Derived won't inherit Base::foo at all. If
Base::foo
is pure virtual it must be *implemented*, not overridden, in Derived:


What garbage. My use of the term "overridden" is not incorrect and
pure
virtual functions can be inherited.


You can't inherit the definition, if I am wrong show me some code that
does
this.


Wrong; see below.

     From "C++ In A Nutshell":

"A derived class can override a pure virtual function and provide a
body
for it, override it and declare it pure again, or simply inherit the
pure
function."


This is talking about inheriting the pure virtual function, as a PVF
without
a definition. This is not talking about inheriting and overridding the
definition of a PVF , which is what you were talking about.


No it isn't; you don't know what you are talking about as usual. Whether
or not a pure virtual function has a definition has no bearing on the
fact
that it must be implemented in some derived class or on how it is
inherited. Some code:

struct foo
{
    virtual void f() = 0;
};

void foo::f() {}

struct bar : foo
{
    // does bar inherit foo::f()?
};

struct baz : bar
{
    virtual void f() { bar::foo(); } // yes, bar does inherit foo::f().
};


Ok so you can inherit the definition, but still not in the way I
represented( inherited to an instantiatable class). Which was a very
important aspect of what I represented because after all this is the
point
where the PVF must be implemented.


What is "inherited to an instantiatable class" supposed to mean? Nobody
has suggested that an abstract class can be instantiated however a
partially constructed object of type abstract base class can exist.

So you are still incorrect to suggest that a PVF is just a virtual
function
that must be overridden, because it is certainly alot different than
that.


I am not still incorrect. A pure virtual function is a simply a virtual
function that must be implemented in a derived class, nothing more and the
standard should reflect this. You have yet to answer the original
question I posed which is to provide a rationale as to why the standard
makes it UB to make a virtual call to a pure virtual function that has a
definition.


I see you have now changed your wording to "must be *implemented* in a
derived class".
I will take that as a silent admission of your incorrectness.


Incorrect about what? *Your* view as to what well known terms mean?
*Implementing* a pure virtual function in a derived class is also
*overriding* a pure virtual function in a derived class; it is obvious
to anyone with half a brain that that was what I referring to. You are
obviously starting to troll now as you are unable to answer my question.

As for answering your original question , I have answered but you seen to
fail to understand. I have explained that if it were allowed to invoke PVF
definitions from a constructor in an abstract class it would give the PFV a
behaviour that was not pure. In other words the function could invoke
multiple definitions, or as I said earlier it would no longer represent an
interfase-like concept.


That is not an adequate rationale; C++ is not Java; abstract base
classes in C++ are not the same as Java interfaces; sub-objects of type
abstract base class can have state and function implementations.

/Leigh

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